Camille Marino, an animal rights extremist who founded the website – Negotiation is Over, was handcuffed to her chair in a Michigan courtroom and then taken to jail after a judge found that she had violated the terms of her bond and would be tried for stalking a researcher in Michigan. The pattern of criminal harassment and threats she directed against Michigan researchers was nearly identical to behavior she directed against me and other UCLA researchers since 2009 and that she has since repeated in her efforts to intimated Florida scientists. As I have previously stated, this pattern of behavior must not be tolerated in a civil society; it is neither Constitutionally protected, nor decent.
Starting in 2009, Ms. Marino began a focused campaign that included blog posts and emails that were intended to intimidate and harass me. These individual activities are too numerous to mention here, but they culminated in a post she made in June of 2010:
The image on this page is not a cute logo. It is my personal belief that if you are a sadistic animal torturer, that is all you deserve – a chalk outline. That’s my opinion, not a threat. It’s not even inciting anyone because, unless you read my words and run out and murder David Jenstch (sic) (an idea that amuses me immensely), I’m not responsible. If you have time to think about it and form your own conclusions, my words cease being the impetus. Eh, that used to be the law at least. Who knows? Who cares? We have a job to do and that’s all that matters…. NIO is no longer mincing words. This is war!… Nothing is off limits at NIO!
If this wasn’t enough, she goes on:
if there are no consequences, there is no threat. If you spill blood, your blood should be spilled as well…. Some of the more high profile pacifists have said that I am “violent” and “unbalanced”. I think they finally may be right about something!
If I have my way, you’ll be praying to us for mercy!
In these two paragraphs, Marino makes perfectly clear her willingness to engage in criminally threatening speech that well exceeds the protections afforded by the First Amendment. It also shows her intent to see her own words spun into actions (by others, of course!) It’s why a court in Southern California granted me a permanent restraining order against her in 2010. I went to court with nothing more than a stack of NIO posts and emails in my hand, the judge saw them for the threats that they were intended to be.
When, sometime later, Marino turned her attention to Michigan researchers, I contacted those individuals and recommended the same strategy. Today, that strategy has played its way out, and Marino is in jail pending trial, as it should be. Her trial will be an opportunity to fully dissect the blogs, comments and emails sent by Marino and other NIO individuals, and I fully believe it will lead to a guilty verdict. What is more, in the process, other NIO individuals who engaged in threatening behavior can be identified, and the legal process can be directed against them.
This is my message to researchers who are being targeted by extremists like those at NIO. When they cross the line, take action. Go to court. Get an order. Demand the court enforce the order and send those activists to jail. For too long, these extremists have depended on us to lay low and to let them malign us. Let this not be the case any longer.
No one bears the responsibility to protect us if we won’t protect ourselves using the tools the law provides. Marino and her sycophants are nothing more than thugs, bullies and stalkers, and the law must be made to recognize that.
If you are being targeted by animal rights extremists, contact me. I’m more than willing to help. Together, we can put a stop to the criminal harassment of animal rights extremists.
unlikelyactivist 
Thank you so much for keeping me updated with this garbage you continue to drivel!
We have reached the end of negotiation. But this is only the beginning for our organisation NIO and Camille Marino, the CEO.
It is also the beginning of a concerted effort to throw light on the “Shambles of (Pseudo) Science.”
The vivisectors are the criminals. Not those who would seek to stop them.
“I am the voice of the voiceless
Through me the dumb shall speak
Till the deaf world’s ear be made to hear
The cry of the wordless weak.
From street, from cage and from kennel,
From jungles and stall, the wail
Of my tortured kin proclaims the sin
Of the mighty Against the frail.
~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox
I will lay down my life for the animals.
Camille Marino has already proven what she is prepared to forfeit. Your strutting self-importance pales into insignificance.
Now that she is in jail, it will be FAR easier for her to be charged with offenses due to her bullying ways in the future. I sincerely hope she enjoys the ‘hospitality’ of County jails and State/Federal prison many times more in the future.
Elizabeth you are so stoopitt! Camille will be out of jail in just a couple of weeks. There’s never going to be any prison because she did nothing wrong- which is why all but 1 charge was dropped. This is a case of the police being puppeted by a profiteer- or there would be more trouble. Only a stoopitt person wouldn’t see that. Since all money they thought they were draining her of was donated by ARAs globally, all they ended up doing was to help her use herself to bring awareness to what goes on in Wayne State’s torture labs. Which included her organizing a jail hunger strike that just ended. Also via donations, she was able to continue and win ANOTHER lawsuit against the University of Florida in her 123 days in jail. That story has been picked up by the media- feel free to Google it. So negotiation is still over!
Carmen Marino is an unbalanced fanatic who needs to be in a locked ward for the protection of herself and others–mostly others.
Sheesh. Really stupid words from someone who was attacted some years back (car? house? im not sure) before Camille and NIO. You’re really so hated that talking others into fighting against free speech with you doesn’t sound like much protection.
Lisa, no disrespect intended, but did you read the article before you started replying?
Camille posted the following statement on NIO regarding David Jentsch: “The image on this page is not a cute logo. It is my personal belief that if you are a sadistic animal torturer, that is all you deserve – a chalk outline. That’s my opinion, not a threat. It’s not even inciting anyone because, unless you read my words and run out and murder David Jenstch (sic) (an idea that amuses me immensely), I’m not responsible. If you have time to think about it and form your own conclusions, my words cease being the impetus. Eh, that used to be the law at least. Who knows? Who cares? We have a job to do and that’s all that matters…. NIO is no longer mincing words. This is war!… Nothing is off limits at NIO!” If this wasn’t enough, she goes on: “if there are no consequences, there is no threat. If you spill blood, your blood should be spilled as well…. Some of the more high profile pacifists have said that I am “violent” and “unbalanced”. I think they finally may be right about something! If I have my way, you’ll be praying to us for mercy!”
Note that although Camille claimed that her comments were not to be taken as threats, a court in Southern California considered her statements and determined that they were in fact threatening and, as such, not protected by the first amendment. David was granted a permanent restraining order against Camille in 2010.
WWJD (I like your username):
Camille has never been to Cali for one thing and we all post about him so basically they gave him a blankie to shut him up. Again I would like to point out a couple things
– For all the idiots staging robberies of her home, writing articles, chaining her in a bus for 40 hours till they drove into a tornado and had to take shelter, actually calling all of us terrorists, filing this or that useless motion…NO GOVERNMENT AGENCY IS INTERESTED IN HER! Doesn’t that at least make you want to question something?? And granted him a restraining order on someone who has never been to his state-3000 miles away- is absurd. Bowing down to legal babble, WWJD, is what keeps it working on innocent people. Tell me what you think that did for him or against her? She never did anything to him and never will!
– Do you understand about the 1st amendment? I’m not being sarcastic. In this country, Nazis can gather and talk about hating Jews. KKK people can set things on fire while hating blacks. Someone can burn a Qaran. You need to step back and look at the bigger picture and why that has to be allowed even as offensive as it is. That’s my kind of very highly offensive stuff by the way. The reason no big, REAL agencies who know the REAL law don’t get involved is because they know this. Camille is very offensive to alot of people. I get that. But not you or anyone else can bend the law based on your emotions; it degrades the meaning from that point on. Can you not see how useless “granting Jench a restraining order” against someone who never did anything to him? His own guilt is what fuels the fear in his head. AND IF HE WERE EVER THREATENED, WHY IS SHE NOT IN JAIL????? Because he wasn’t. The law is based mostly on actions because words are subjective and interprative. So are actions but not like speech. She hasn’t done anything illegal to anyone.
Let’s hope all of demented rara’s find themselves handcuffed to a chair one happy day. You’re an inspiration in life and in the fight against ar. Sorry for your troubles, but thanks for being such a good fighter, and for what you do for humanity–something of which these sorts have none.
Lisa, free speech isn’t always free. Do you see any similarities between the article (below) and the things that Camille has posted about Jentsch, O’Leary, etc?
The following is from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/13/hal-turner-guilty-blogger_n_681881.html
“Conservative shock jock and blogger Hal Turner was convicted Friday for making death threats against federal appeals court judges in Illinois.
A New York City jury deliberated less than two hours Friday before finding Hal Turner guilty of threatening the judges, reportedly in retaliation for their 2009 ruling upholding handgun bans in Chicago and Oak Park.
According to a release from the FBI, Turner was arrested and charged in June of 2009 after expressing “outrage” over a handgun decision by Chief Judge Frank Easterbrook and Judges Richard Posner and William Bauer, of the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
“Let me be the first to say this plainly,” Turner wrote. “These Judges deserve to be killed.”
The FBI reports that Turner also included photographs, phone numbers, work addresses and room numbers of the judges, along with a photo of the building in which they work and a map of its location.
The three judges testified in Brooklyn Wednesday, saying that their staff told them about Turner’s postings.
Patrick J. Fitzgerald, United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, issued a statement about the case Friday:
“There is no place in society for threatening federal judges with violence. Period. We are grateful that the jury saw these threats for what they were and rejected any notion that they were acceptable speech.”
Turner’s defense had argued that his rants were “political trash talk” protected by the First Amendment.
Turner, who was previously free on bond, was taken into custody pending sentencing, according to the FBI.
He faces a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
Lisa,
It is wrong to put misleading and false/exaggerated information on a website with individuals names and personal information. If the KKK or any other group you mention above were targeting an individual, in the way that NIO does, they would not be protected by the First Amendment. It amazes me that you really believe this so strongly. Have you ever allowed yourself to think that maybe you are wrong in your approach?
A private citizen’s reputational and privacy interests tend to outweigh free speech considerations and therefore deserve greater protection from the courts (see Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323, 94 S. Ct. 2997, 41 L. Ed. 2d 789 [1974]).
a federal appeals court ruled that an anti-abortion web site was not protected by the First Amendment. The web site posted photos, names, addresses, and other information pertaining to Abortion providers, their family members, and others who were perceived as supporting abortion rights. Although neither the site nor the posters made explicit threats against the abortion providers, violence at clinics that provided abortions had followed poster distribution in the past. Planned Parenthood sued the group under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act of 1994 (FACE), 18 U.S.C. § 248, and other laws. The trial judge instructed the jury that if the defendants’ statements were “true threats,” the First Amendment would not protect them. The jury awarded the plaintiff a multimillion-dollar verdict. The Ninth Circuit stated that a jury could conclude that the postings constituted a true threat under FACE, which removed any First Amendment protection for the defendants.
Some animal testing is unavoidable. What this article is also saying is that extremists not only defeat their purpose, but empowers the vivisectionists. Consider also: The legal fees of Camille alone could spay/neuter hundreds if not thousands of animals saving them from homelessness or getting impounded. So these scientists really need to be left alone.
Luke Thomas. Are you still around. Hahahahahaha………
Yes Annie…unfortunately Luke Thomas is STILL AROUND. What a joke. And Quad…..RESULTS ARE FRAUDULANT. THATS WHY THERE HASNT BEEN A CURE FOR ANYTHING AS A RESULT OF ANIMAL TESTING. God you people are down-right stupid and ignorant. You are all a bunch of brain-washed, ignorant, idiotic, pathetic and useless members of the human race. You like to call ARAs stupid and ignorant when, in fact, we know what is truly going on. We have the courage to face it head on. You useless lumps do nothing but waste oxygen. I have more important stuff to do than waste my time talking with losers. While you all are trying to justify torture, murder and abuse, some of us are trying to change things. Rot in hell. Oh…gosh…I threatened you all…why dont you call the cops and have me arrested????? Go screw yourselves
Actualy animal testing has made it possible to cure rabies, tubercolosis, measles, mumps, rubella, polio and many more
Read that as Dawnie is full of shit and doesn’t know what he/she/it is talking about
No, Negotiation is NOT over for Camille Marino. This is just the beginning. Camille and the animals have an army behind her.
Word…
I thought you said you you had more important stuff to do? I’d respond to your idiotic diatribe, but it would be pointless.
Remind me again how freedom of speech protects this kind of behavoir? I mean these are very clearly veiled threats meant to terrorize.
You guys can talk about how research is so bad when you start growing your own food with no pesticides tested on animals for toxicity and no long distance shipping which disrupts ecosystems. I wonder what would happen if your kid got cancer, I sure as hell don’t believe you would kill your kid because you refuse to support the use of medicines tested on animals.
We talk about stopping and using alternatives because THERE ARE SO MANY AVAILABLE that it is possible! Just because you cannot conceive of it doesn’t make it false. What you speak of, as do many sick minded vivisectors is the past. And that has no bearing on the alternatives now in use when you contine to tortue. They weren’t tried back then so we have no clue if animal torture was the only way to have come about medicines. DUH. Now its time to stop and you are quickly becoming known as nothing more than frankenstines.
http://emptyallcages.com/victories/
What did you just say? That was utterly incomprehensible.
You speak of alternatives? Where, where can we get a group of organisms to test a drug on that has nearly zero genetic variation, how do we test for which genes do what in a complex system if we cant genetically engineer animals. I mean we certainly cant genetically engineer babies! How do we test a drug for teratogenic effects? You need pregnant animals to do that and that is simply not possible invitro. Not everything is possible in cell culture. None of the things I just listed can be accomplished using only cell culture and in vitro techniques. It is very hard to get enough stem cells for experiments and they suffer the same downfalls of cell culture. Nanotech is decades off and would require animal research to develop, In silico is VERY limited by our knowledge and usually doesn’t work for more than very basic things.
Before claiming that these alternatives will be able to replace animal testing you should learn what they can or can’t do
OK, I’ call BS on this one. Name the alternative. Just one. Go ahead. I’m waiting
@Lisa Grossman: As of today, 7-18-12, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires all new drugs to be tested in two species of animals PRIOR to them being given to humans. Unless and until that changes, no new therapeutics can be developed without the use of animals. Instead of attacking the scientists who are carrying out federally required (and often federally funded) research, your time may be better spent petitioning the FDA to revise their new drug approval procedures.
And if one should ever get a BLOOD CLOT in their leg which is a medical emergency (since it can break off and kill the lungs) the treatment of choice is HEPARIN – which was made from the intestines of 3,000 pigs to make a single kilogram of this drug – because it’s derived from endothelial mast and basophil cells (which is why they use pig intestines!) thus preventing the formation of clots allowing the clot to naturally dissolve–infused intravenously inhibiting and interrupting the cascade. Needless to say this also treats blood clots in the lungs – a life threatening emergency since there is no blood flow in pulmonary tissue – will become necrotic and the person will suffocate.
No animal testing is predictive in humans. Cancers, heart disease, diabetes is on the increase and useless, expensive medication is handed out like sweeties to kids. Maybe a change of diet would help these diseased bodies! Why are we still forcing beagles to smoke cigarettes – we know they cause cancer! How dare anyone feel it correct to inflict this suffering on sentient beings, due to the human conditions of hedonism and selfishness.
The only animal testing predictive for humans is on humans. And don’t think it doesn’t go on!
‘Most of us do not believe that animal vivisection is right, although it is regularly carried on in most civilized countries. Because it is legal it is done. The heart of man seems to have the hardening capacity to do whatever he can get away with.
But now human beings are again being used for vivisection purposes, much as if they were nothing more than animals.
The “patients” for this human vivisection work do not give permission for the ghastly work that is done on them. And they do not long survive it. In every instance they die as a result. And yet it continues, because it is “scientific” and carried on by men with degrees after their names.
But it could not continue if women did not give approval for their unborn babies to be aborted. For it is the aborted babies (whether brought out dead or alive) during the operations that are later used in innumerable human vivisection experiments.
Untold thousands of babies are, right now, in scientific laboratories around the world taking part in a continuing series of vivisection operations—that go on until the little life ceases and the child is mercifully out of its misery’.
Well said!
Wow, I always thought that the more extreme end of the animal rights movement had a rather tenuous link with reality.
I was wrong.
They clearly lost any connection to reality some time ago!
Right there with ya, Levin. Lost is completely some time ago.
You know animal testing helps animals too. How do you think veterinarians are able to treat pets every day? And what are humans if not animals? A mouse functions the same a human, their just packaged differently. The liver functions the same, the heart, the lungs. So actually they make a pretty good model. By the way, we do experiment on humans…AFTER the animal trials but before they medicine goes to market, Unless you’re really so stupid as to believe that medicines go straight from animal testing to humans? No, no one is that stupid…are you?
What’s the point of experimenting on non-human animals first if no matter the outcome, the experiment must be done on humans?
Since vivisection means ‘live cutting’ it would be impossible or aborted fetuses to be vivisected. This is just one of many things Marino’s lunatic brigade say that is not only “fruit batty’ but patiently false.
yep, prepare yourselves because this is just the beginning. one way or another we will liberate the animals. you’re a bunch of sick-minded motherfuckers who should be locked in cages, tortured, and killed.
What are you going to do exactly?
@Vette This is what’s going to be done… THE ONLY THING THAT HAS EVER BEEN DONE TO THESE PEOPLE:
When a vivisector tortures animals at WSU and UF will continue to be exposed. So will the vivisectors everywhere. Public records will be posted for the world to see what goes on instead of using non-animal alternatives. Lawsuits will be filed through the FDA and local courts. When the vivisectors publish and post their work and contact information attached to their sadistic experiments, this information will be taken from one public website and posted on another public website. People will be free to comment and be as offensive as they want. And no crimes will have been committed- except those that put innocent animals in agony. Now, you may take this statement to the FBI, and all other agencies WHO SO FAR ARE COMPLETELY UNINTERESTED IN CAMILLE AND OTHER ARAs. Surely you can see at least the posibility that profiteers are behind spreading fear about us and claiming we’re criminals. And even idiots like yourself know there are plenty of instances around the world where courts have been bought and paid for.
The judge in Detroit last week had no business stating that Camille was going to pay this time- before a trial. she should recuse herself and you all should be very worried. Once one person’s rights are compromise, yours are only time away. And we don’t handcuff people to chairs in courtrooms, especially when they have NEVER refused to show up when summened.
@Lisa: See, now clearly you’re someone who could benefit from taking some medications. I’m thinking something along the lines of Haloperidol or Benperidol. I think it would do wonders for you. In the meantime, please list just ONE non-animal alternative that can replace animal models. Just one.
I did list it- I’m assuming you just wrote before seeing it. As I told vettegirl, all vivisectors/supporters turn to irrelivant responses when they cannot defend the points they’re trying to make any longer. Medications, spelling, up-bringing, extremists, etc. We have heard it all. When you resort to these as responses we can see you’re no one with a brain.
@Lisa
Lisa, how would you react to the following scenario? Please note that any resemblance between your life and the situations described below are purely coincidental…
Let’s say that I belong to a group that believes that the collapse of the United States’ economy was due to people who were financially irresponsible. Then, let’s assume that we Google your name and discover that the bank foreclosed on your home and you filed for bankruptcy. Now, even though you followed all of the rules, and your bankruptcy was completely legal, we nevertheless find your actions to be morally reprehensible and decide to “name and shame” you.
To do so, we create a Facebook Event page filled with lots of half-truths, innuendo and downright lies. Then, once everyone is whipped into a frenzy, we provide your personal contact information and suggest that people email/call you and tell you exactly how they feel about your actions. Now, most people will likely be polite but, let’s face it, some may be quite violent towards you. However, since all we did was provide your public information, we can neither control nor be held responsible for the actions of others.
Then, once we’ve had our fun at your expense for a while, we decide to extend our outreach to your family. After all, animal rights activists have declared that the families of “vivisectors” are fair game. You state below that you have a child. How would you feel if we were provide your child’s name and contact information and urge people from around the world to harass your child, even though he/she has nothing to do with your financial responsibilities (or lack thereof)? And, if any of your child’s friends try to come to his/her defense, we will provide their contact information as well and include them in our “educational” program.
Of course, we will eventually tire of merely harassing your via email and telephone, and will need to escalate our tactics to public demonstrations against you at your home/place of business. You state that you have been arrested before. Therefore, there are probably mug shots of you that could be used on posters and leaflets calling you every name under the sun. Note that the fact that the charges may have been dropped is totally irrelevant, as the only thing of importance is that our message be heard!
Finally, instead of protesting outside of a church like you and Camille did, we decide to protest outside of a long-term care facility. You know, the kind of place where people with chronic diseases and brain injuries live. Of course the fact that the patients/staff/visitors have absolutely nothing to do with our cause is immaterial… again, our message must be heard! The other plus, of course, is that these people are very unlikely to fight back.
So Lisa, would you be OK with the actions described above? After all, like you said, “information will be taken from one public website and posted on another public website. People will be free to comment and be as offensive as they want. And no crimes will have been committed…”
If, on the other hand, you find any of our actions to be offensive or an invasion of your privacy, then you, my dear, are a hypocrite .
Of course I wouldn’t want some of the negative parts of my life made public, BUT I KNOW THAT’S NOT ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO DO. Might be on the child issue, but I get your point. I hope you understand mine. That’s why I KNOW ITS LEGAL for them to write those letters to me and have done nothing about them except to share them. Further more, I’m only slightly guilty inside myself for my facts so not ONLY do I really not care, I KNOW WHAT YOU’D BE DOING IS LEGAL. On the other hand, vivisectors know they are sub human for what they CHOSE to do to animals so they are terrified for their work and that its a choice to be exposed. They are not only repugnant for what they do, but they brag about it via their published work. The only thing we do is expose truth. Like me and bankruptcy, if I’m not ashamed of it, it wouldn’t work for you. That’s why we know we’re doing not only WHAT IS LEGAL, but what they fear out of knowing their actions are wrong. And if we’re wrong, say about UF, why do they lie and cover instead of coming forward in public?
PS…and the public, once you did all that stuff, would be behind me again making you ineffective. Since vivisectors will never have the general public behind them, less and less do to our work, it wouldn’t be anything to me. People know evil. That’s why we show all the pics and records we can. All we do is show the truth. I challenge you to be as honest as I am then publically show truths about my life trying to stop me from doing some particular thing. (I’m betting you’ll leave out the part about my brain injured little sister!) Since all the other stuff you mention has stopped its all moot anyway, but I’m just trying to stick with some of you and have you understand better.
v
Keep it up, Danielle! Statements like that would be useful to have Marino sentenced to those 10 years in a nice prison cell, were she belongs. And you too, for what I see.
@cycler: As with all vivisectors/supporters, your either very stupid or a complete liar. Danielle states “should be”
A. That’s not a threat. B. Has nothing to do with Camille. Idiot.
@Lisa,
I’m sorry, I did not know about your sister. I posted that from my own families experience. My niece was in a very serious car accident in 2001 that left her severely injured and killed the driver of the car. My niece was fortunate enough to leave the long-term care facility where was treated and resume her life. However, I know in my heart, that the only reason my niece is alive today is because of the surgical techniques and medications that she received..all of the procedures and medications were first tested in animals.
Do you think that your words frighten us? We will continue to fight for justice! You call us thugs, bullies and stalkers. What do you think you are? What do you think the animals are feeling as you approach them? Would you like to be one of them? I know who the thugs, bullies and stalkers are! There is no way that we will desert the poor animals that continue to be tortured and murdered by you and your ilk. I suggest you read the Summer 2012 vol XX1 No 3 edition of GOOD MEDICINE from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Neal Barnard’s editorial is very insightful and he speaks from experience. He says ‘Not only do they kill animals, but at the end of each laboratory experience a part of the student’s compassion dies too. Students who train on animals come to imagine that there is no other way. Their interest in using more humane methods is blunted and none of this does the profession any good’. This is no doubt what has happened to you and others like you. You and they deserve all the harrassement received ….and be assured it will keep coming your way! And in answer to ‘cetude’ – ‘that these scientists need to be left alone’. It will not be happening cetude!!!
PCRM is a joke, an animal rights group masquerading as an association of physicians when in point of fact very few of their members are medical doctors.
They may be independently funded now, but originally they were funded by PETA for purposes of propaganda.
All the legal drivel from vivisectors is bullshit. The ONLY people keeping us in court, paying money and being slanderd ARE THOSE WHO STAND TO LOOSE MONEY! Seriously, you cannot see that? No FBI, no government agencies interested in us, but you be;lieve we commit crimes? Camille may be highly offensive but not illegal. No judge in their right mind would allow an American to be hand cuffed to a chair in court , when she keeps showing up to the court! And no judge in her right mind would be saying how much Camilles actions are going to cost her before a trial! People who think this is ok because its happening to others and not them are both ignorant and arrogant…common traits among vivisectors. When someone’s rights are violated, your are only time away. They have made up laws about what she can and can’t say till they figure out if she has a 1st amendment right? I was being taken to trial for standing on the sidewalk with a suspended drivers license. at a protest against UF of course. The police lied in court and the judge supress the evidence and the case was dropped. So when they call us criminals your a complete fucktard to just believe them. Not only is Camilles struggle setting precidence, but so are the absurities that they enemy is INVENTING. The charges, the vivisector scum, the system are all proceeding out of so many wrong and illegal reason that justice for the situation was lost along time ago.
Excuse me but violating a Court Restraint order IS illegal.
The court restraint is based on the assumption that Camille has no 1st amendment rights! She didn’t do anything wrong in the first place. Everything based on saying she did anything but write offensive words is null. These people will do everything in their power to prolong and make excuses to keep this issue from getting to trial. You’ll see that. They have arrested her in FL and kept her with no council for 3 weeks in jail. Then they chained her in a bus for 40 hours, driving in circles taking their time to Michigan. There was one stop to a tornado bunker that the driver drove right into in Kentucky. When she was in jail a medication was denied. When in MI, they simpley bonded her out and sent her back to FL. She has come whenever they told her to come back to court. While back in FL they raided Camille’s home, stealing her computer, difital camera and most all electronic property. This is because she has done nothing wrong and they were fishing to find something. The people who make money are behind this HARRASSMENT AND SLANDER. They call torturing animals an “animal enterprise.” Which is no better than saying a young girl enterprise or a black person enterprise. What is happening to Camille is because her work is exposing an industry that’s making money hand over fist and they don’t want her in the way. That’s it. Also in FL, they have said that another animal rights activist tried to steal a whale. A fucking whale!! He was taking pictures of abuse at the Miami Sea Aquarium, but they would loose too much money if that was exposed so he’s been arrested for trying to steal a whale. He won’t be at trial for some time either.
THINK ABOUT THIS when deciding what’s true here and what’s made up against a person. We activists pay money to do our work and what we get in the end in piece of mind. Our accusors make money on the animals they torture and stand to loose money if we expose them successfully. Seriously, have you not thought of this?
NIO seems to be of the opinion that, if it simply says Marino did nothing illegal often enough, it shall be so. In that sense, she and George Zimmerman have a lot in common.
Actually, now that I think about it, they do have a lot in common, and they both deserve significant jail time as a result.
@cetude: Now read this really really slowly so that it might sink in. The restraining order, the very first one, was based on something protected by free speech. Everything after that is moot and is subject to vivisectors and WSU being sued for everything they did to Camille after that. Now, you may disagree with with- that’s what the trial is for. But to just claim a person has done something wrong just because you were told so is very ignorant. So. (reading slowly again) the court order was likely BOUGHT. When Camille finally gets to go to trial, you will see charges dropped, including the court order you’re bowing down to worship.
@Lisa now read THIS very carefully. Camille is not a Judge, and neither are you. It requires *another* Court order to undo or modify an existing Court order. Violation of Restraint orders are NOT covered under free speech. She violated that Court order. That’s why the Judge IS the Court. How she got arrested is violation of an existing Court Restraint Order.
@cetude BUT the original order was issued against something that was free speech. If Camille wasn’t fighting this, our whole society would be set back 100s of years. This case is going to prove that offensive language is awful, but not against the law. Again, the restraint, the very first action ever, was issued against something covered by free speech. The trial will prove this.
CETUDE…AKA LUKE THOMAS….TALKS ALOT BUT KNOWS NOTHING. I SUGGEST ALL ARA’S STOP COMMENTING IN THIS BLOG. IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. IT IS A DISTRACTION AND MEANT TO BE SO.
@Dawnie – I don’t know anything? Oh really? Camille is behind bars. Oh yeah, she knows it all. Ever hear of “Misery loves company?” –but the truth is she has empowered the vivisectionists. In fact NIO has given vivisectionists a LOT of power.
Dear Lisa: You still don’t get it. A Court order was issued. Camille *violated* that Court order. That is what is going to be on trial. And she wantonly disobeyed the conditions of her bail (not good!). Whether or not you agree with the original Court order is irrelevant. You understand now?
cetude: I do understand that. what you don’t get, or refuse to consider, is that warrant was for threatening someone which she has never done. This is why they will prolong trial and have been for a year now. They can pretend its right to put out warrents, steal her computer and tell her who she can and cannot talk to, but it will be proven all wrong at trial. I cannot believe educated people don’t see the ramifications of charging someone, including starting with warrants, who took something from one public website and posted it on another. You may never acknowledge this cetude, but she’s fighting for your rights too.
@Lisa – Camille and NIO has only empowered the vivisectionists. It IS possible to create change without harassing, intimidating, or threatening (even implied) anybody. I know some Senators–so when I asked them many spoke on my behalf and didn’t do too badly when Florida passed a ban on penned hunts (legalized dog fighting which hunting dogs ripped coyotes and foxes to pieces in enclosures), PASSED the spay/neuter license tag (which has consequently generated revenue of thousands of dollars for free and low cost spay/neutering services across Florida). It took three years, but there is now a law against bestiality in the State. I received threats from reptile breeders-but Florida passed a snake ban (which has infested the Everglades and companion animals are being dumped there and these snakes are eating them. In fact the NIH – due to Petitions and letters to the Obama administration– is doing a restructuring which will reduce the funding of animal testing-with the United State’s full blessings. 🙂 Keep it legal. It takes more work – but it DOES work 🙂
@cetude: And what if you have an issue that has had all those solutions tried and remains the same? And by the same I mean innocents screaming in pain and begging for their lives… not the same jellybean flavor. Would you keep doing the same things over and over to solve the problem? Say the kid next door was being abused. You know its happening, you see her injuries, and you know children services have come by and done nothing. What next? What we do these days is legal, offensive, but legal. THEY MADE US. Refusal to ban primate testing makes us protest. Arresting us for protesting makes us stop the flow of money into a school. People lying about us telling a whole city (Gainesville) that we’re terrorists when no agency is seeking us, makes us expose those people. What you say isn’t logical. The numbers of murdered animals NEVER goes down in the history of vivisection. Why would we not escalate as well when changes aren’t happening? When regular channells are denied us- becaue what we ask will make profit harder- then we creatively try something else. It would be stupid to do it any other way. Also stupid to ask someone politely to stop kicking your dog. what if they wouldn’t pass the law on snakes? Wouldn”t you work harder? What then if a snake bit your little sister?
I mean seriously, think about the logistics of achieving animal experiment bans if we do what has always been done. AND alternatives are available but most refuse to employ even one at their institutions. Staying legal yes, but not letting these people continue with what they are doing. Both can be done.
@Lisa. But it hasn’t remained the same. The problem with homeless animals is already extremely widespread. The FL Freshwater & Wildlife commission in 2003 (it’s much much much worse now!) about 5.3 million stray and feral cats in Florida (http://www.icwdm.org/Publications/pdf/House_Cats/FLFW_feralcats.pdf) The spay/neuter license tag has provided THOUSANDS of free and low cost spay/neuterings. It’s part of the solution. In fact California loved the idea so they passed it to their laws. I’m going to spread this idea about the license tags to other States soon. The sale of monstrous sized reptiles are now banned in Florida. Penned hunts ILLEGAL in Florida now. The NIH is going to restructure and curtail funding for animal experiments due to many personal letters to the Obama administration (only the personal approach works-not petitions!). Point is where Negotiation is Over FAILS is that you *CANNOT* force people to change. You can do research, do your homework, EDUCATE officials – present your case – and through legislation ONLY do things change. Sometimes even the University officials can bring changes voluntarily–but you have to be diplomatic for them to listen to you, and present a well thought out research presentation. But forcing change will only meet with FAILURE and, in fact, empower the vivisectionists. How hard is that to comprehend??
@Lisa: One cannot violate a Court restraining order – one would need to Petition the Court (Judge) for ANOTHER Court order to do this. Free speech does not cover violating a Court Order.
@Lisa:Camille is not the Court. The Judge is, and she violated his Order of Restraint.
@cetude: Now read this really really slowly so that it might sink in. The restraining order, the very first one, was based on something protected by free speech. Everything after that is moot and is subject to vivisectors and WSU being sued for everything they did to Camille after that. Now, you may disagree with with- that’s what the trial is for. But to just claim a person has done something wrong just because you were told so is very ignorant. So. (reading slowly again) the court order was likely BOUGHT. When Camille finally gets to go to trial, you will see charges dropped, including the court order you’re bowing down to worship.
@Lisa
Have you noticed that every time Camille flies anywhere lately her boarding pass is stamped with the letters SSSS? In case you didn’t know, those letters stand for Secondary Security Screening Selection. The odds of her RANDOMLY (rather than intentionally) being subjected to the extra security screening each time she flies are staggering. Clearly, the various government agencies, i.e., the FBI or the Department of Homeland Security, are very interested in Camille’s activities.
Camille wound up doing 6 months in prison for violating an order of protection.
So called animal activists who can’t leave these scientists alone are CLUELESS what real animal cruelty issues are about. Like this:
Suspected to be committed by polygamist cult to spread fear.
Colorado City, Arizona: Deliberate animal torture. Kitten literally entombed alive in solid concrete-crying for help. She was tortured–entombed in concrete, she was unable to void or move her bowels. She died. I cannot even begin to imagine the horrible suffering.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=af2_1342236307
So yeah I’m saying you “animal activists” have a very limited scope what is going on in the world as testified by bothering these scientists. LEAVE THEM ALONE! When REAL causes need to be attended to. And the above is only one out of many, many, many… and I bet you all are too GUTLESS to see the above link.
We are totally against that too!! There are many groups that work in different areas and try to make it that NO animal suffers……….EVER!!!
With regards to this case of horrific animal cruelty issue which can be seen here http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=af2_1342236307 I’m working with Mohave County, AZ officials. I told them I will help them.
I HAD THE GUTS TO WATCH IT..ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE THE POLICE FOUND IT HIGHLY AMUSING..MAYBE YOU CAN WRITE TO THEM AND VENT YOUR ANGER..AND WHOEVER DID THIS TO THE KITTEN MAY THEY ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY…YOUR STATING THAT WE SHOULD.. LEAVE VIVISECTORS ALONE….WHEN THEIR ARE … REAL… CAUSES THAT NEED ATTENDING TO….SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT.. YOUR ANGRY AND RIGHTLY SO THAT A KITTEN HAS BEEN ENTOMBED IN CONCRETE….BUT YOUR TOTALLY SUPPORTING ANIMAL VIVISECTION, THAT CAUSES THOUSANDS OF ANIMALS TO SUFFER UNIMAGINABLE PAIN AND SUFFERING EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK..MONTH..YEAR…YOU CAN’T BE ANGRY AT THE SUFFERING OF THE KITTEN AND OTHER ANIMALS, AND TOTALLY DISREGARD THE SUFFERING OF OTHERS….LABORITORY ANIMALS BY VIVISECTORS…THATS BEING VERY HYPOCRITICAL…. BY THE WAY CETUDE/LUKE… HAVE… YOU … HAD THE GUTS TO WATCH THE VIDEOS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DUNGEONS OF THE VIVISECTORS… PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.. AND REMEMBER THE… QUEEN .. DOESEN’T WRITE TO YOU PERSONALLY.. AND THE HOUSES OF PARLIMENT…THE PRIME MINISTER…OR ANY OTHER M.P. IN ENGLAND.. THEY PERSONALLY DON’T GIVE A RATS ARSE ABOUT YOU OR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY… THEY ARE TOO BUSY FUCKING UP THE COUNTRY TO TAKE ANY NOTICE OF YOU OK….THEY DON’T LISTEN TO THE BRITISH PEOPLE..SO THEY CERTAINLY WON’T LISTEN TO.. YOU..
These scumbag “researchers” are only in it for the funds. Sick fuckers that they are. His “research” is just as absurd as the whale “research” being conducted in Japan. Just a guise for profit.
Thank you (David Jentsch) so much for being so strong and ready to stand up for what is right. The scary part is no one is seeing the truth for why this woman is in the situation she is in. She is crazy as a loon and actually have followers that support her? wow. Lisa Grossman, your website is full of lies and it’s terribly embarrassing (for you) reading the description on subjects you have zero knowledge of (example 1. would be your description of a scientist running ‘electricity’ through his prisoners eyes..
The reality-During an ERG recording session, the patient watches a standardized light stimulus, and the resulting signal is interpreted in terms of its amplitude (voltage) and time course. This test can even be performed in cooperative children, as well as sedated or anesthetized infants. The visual stimuli include flashes, called a flash ERG, and reversing checkerboard patterns, known as a pattern ERG.
So really it’s the retinal cells in the patients eye producing the ‘electricity’ the electrode is measuring based on light stimulus..not as you so ignorantly describe as the scientist running electricity through the prisoners eyes…
So just with one description in your website, I can look at everything else you write as having no base in reality. Seriously, who believes this stuff? How many different pictures of ‘Queenie’ are there are out there? The original owner of that dog who took it to the shelter/pound, is the true animal terrorist ….imagine having someone you love (as dogs do love their masters) taking you to a shelter and leaving you ..in my mind there is no excuse for that.
Really? Everything? All at once?? Your a liar… if you even know what your talking about. Only guilty vivisectors would just say its all wrong. And for the ERG and light stimulus eye tests- that is CRUELTY you fucktard!! Its ok in a cooperative child because they are not terrified from being forced!!
I notice you skipped over the tests that require immediate heating of the aquius fluid to measure how fast the swelling of the eye goes down. And the little guy has to lay on the table waking periodically to be given more Ketamine. What do you think those few seconds every couple hours are like? Let alone his whole life?? Martek has 100s of different synthetic parts available- more common than anything out there for alternatives are eyes/opthamology. No one believes you when you say all those alternatives are all wrong. How stupid can you get to think otherwise? There’s no reason to torture these creatures any longer and you know it. But to admit this, you vivisectors will have to admit to being the sadists that you are.
Sorry, I did not find what you are talking about regarding the aqueous fluid. I am not a vivisector or a scientist. I found this page from a link on a Facebook page. I read the article and read the comments, which led me to your website. It doesn’t take much time to look up what an electroretinogram does on google. I looked up Martek Biosciences, can’t find anything other then nutritional supplements. Do you have a link to their synthetic parts (what does that mean anyway?) available that you mention? I never said the alternatives were wrong, I have a hard time believing the information you have on your website because of the obvious misinformation you are spouting there.
Avis, your mistake is assuming that the clams that Lisa makes might be honest. Sure, over the years a varierty of methods have been developed that can replace the use of some live animals in research. These include a variety of eye models that use either cultured cells or tissues from dead animals (termed ex-vivo) that are useful in a variety of applications, e.g. toxicology, but they can certainly can’t measure the response to visual stimuli.
It’s pretty common for AR activists to make the misleading claim that methods that have replaced/are replacing live animals in some studies can replace them in all studies, and often this claim is made by people who are certainly aware that they are being dishonest. However, I’m not entirely convinced that Lisa Grossman falls into this category, as her approval of Annie’s earlier comment indicates that she has strayed well into tinfoil hat territory, so she may honestly believe the nonsense she spouts.
Not that this in any way justifies her hate campaign.
There is nothing crazy or looney about being compassionate. I understand their feelings completely. But extremists need to realize “civil disobedience” accomplishes *NOTHING*. Focusing on spay/neuter legislation, reducing the sheer numbers of unwanted and “throw-away” animals, would do much more for animal welfare instead of focusing on fruitless or illegal manias such as harassing scientists. Dying from homelessness, starvation (and there, for example, hundreds if not thousands of unwanted dogs and cats thrown in the Everglades which these unfortunate pets end up as snake food) – is animal cruelty to the extreme; and homeless animals end up as victims of human and animal predation. I’ve taken many homeless starving animals to the dog pound, which made me cry. Everyday I live with this guilt. But it’s far better for them to be euthanized than to slowly starve to death. I have nightmares and feel a lot of guilt about impounding these animals, but I already have three cats I can’t take in any more. I KNOW MY LIMITS. The problem with animal extremists – they do want to acknowledge their limits, which is why they get themselves into trouble and their “campaigns” — simply fail. That’s the key word: KNOW YOUR LIMITS. And accomplish and focus on the things you can do.
I’ve taken pregnant homeless cats to the pound, and I know they destroyed them. That sounds very cruel of me, but which is more cruel: Let her have her kittens and PERPETUATE more homeless cats. You have to get a reality check. And this “reality check” is something an extremist cannot apparently do.
@ avis
I see this above from you:
“wow. Lisa Grossman, your website is full of lies and it’s terribly embarrassing (for you) reading the description on subjects you have zero knowledge of.”
And now you have a hard time believing what’s on my website- asking for information that’s there on Matek??? Obviously you have comments on something you didn’t look at. Shocking. Well your ignorance barely deservs an answer but its important to try to get through to people about alternatives and how what was done in the past on animals is no longer civilized when there are other CHOICES. And before you act like your IQ is set at room temperature, let me answer your next question…no idiot, not everything they do is listed here.
Synthetic Biology:
Agilent’s, UC Berkeley Synthetic Biology Institute, Intrexon Corporation, Evolva Biotech, Codexis, Ginkgo BioWorks, LifeTech, BioLOGIC, Synbio Corporation
– The world’s largest oil, agricul¬tural, and pharmaceutical compa¬nies are already pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into synthetic biology research!
Ginkgo BioWorks engineers new organisms to solve challenges across a range of industries from fuels to pharmaceutical production. Our biological engineers make use of an in-house pipeline of synthetic biology technologies to design, build, and test new organisms.
MatTek Corporation is a global industry leader in tissue engineering. The company produces ready-to-use, normal (non-transformed), human cell-derived, fully differentiated, 3-D, organotypic in vitro tissue. The elimination of needless animal suffering is just one of the many benefits.
EpiAirway Tissues – Application Examples
Inhaled Drug Delivery * Asthma/COPD Research * Respiratory Infection * Tobacco Smoke/Nano-particle Toxicology * Inhalation Toxicology/Genotoxicology * Respiratory Allergy/Immunology * High Throughput Screening HTS).
EpiDermFT Tissues – Application Examples
Comparison: EpiDermFT vs. EpiDerm * Toxicology & Drug Development * Wound Healing * Skin Cancer * Photodamage * Photoaging * Anti-Aging * Radiation Damage * Blistering Skin Diseases * Genetic Damage.
EpiOcular Tissues – Application Examples
Ocular Irritation Determination * “Sub-Draize” Mild, Milder, Mildest Ocular Irritation Testing * Draize Score Determination for Surfactants and Surfactant-based Products (Cosmetics, Consumer Products, etc.).
EpiVaginal Tissues – Application Examples
Microbicide Toxicity/Efficacy * Feminine Hygiene/Contraceptive Product Irritation * HIV-1 Infection * Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD) Infection * Vaginal Drug Delivery * Innate Immunity * Cell Adhesion.
@cetude: HEELLLOOOOO?? No response??
Lisa, in your above post you called the company martek…and that is what I searched for…I don’t care to look at anything else you have on your website after reading just the small amount I chose to look at..because it’s propaganda for extreme animal rights activists. You almost seem brainwashed to me. Look, it’s not normal behavior (and should be illegal-if this was printed in a newspaper, I think it would be considered libel, but for some reason on the internet it’s ok? ) to think it’s ok to trash someone’s reputation and their work, make unbelievable innuendoes and accusations ..so much conjecture all over the place based on nothing you know anything about. Sorry I don’t buy your diatribes..
Name one alternative that can test for teratogenic effects.
Poor little murderers; can give it but can’t take it! So typical. Big bad dickless researcher has to gat a restraining order. What’s wrong your guilt getting to you.
For me there is only one issue here, and that is, if a species would go to such means to save themselves, are they really worth saving!
I think not!
Many animal rights extremists have have stated in no uncertain terms that they have no regard for the law and proud to declare their intentions of imposing their moral views on the rest of society “by any means necessary”. Those that later attempt to take refuge in the very law they despise shows their cowardice and failure to stand up to their own philosophy.
So then what are you saying Dario- ARAs are wrong when they do something you don’t like and wrong if they don’t follow through on something you don’t like? I’d like to point out- you are the one who quit being a vivisector- not standing up to anything you believe. I’m glad of that, but it hardly allows you to accuse others of the same. I’d also like to point out that NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS, NONE OF THESE THINGS YOU INSIST ARE THREATS HAVE EVER COME TO PASS! I mean seriously- how can you go on and on? Camilles words are not threats, are protected by free speech, and no one has EVER been in danger.
Those that threatened me and my family already spent time in prison for their illegal activities. Apparently, this lesson has not reached others. As for what constitutes a threat it seems a jury of your peers will have to decide that.
As for being wrong — I have no doubt ARAs have valid concerns about animals suffering. But they are wrong not consider the ethical dilemmas involved, they are wrong because they misrepresent and distort scientific facts, and they are wrong because they assume scientists have other motives for doing their work. So yes, you are wrong on multiple counts.
It never ceases to amaze me how illiterate the AR crowd really is. As a group, they never seem to be able to articulate what they are trying to say in a constructive manner so they digress to calling everyone silly names, like “fucktard.” What the hell does that mean anyway? All this swearing makes it really hard to figure out what they are really trying to say. But then again, maybe they are not trying to say anything but rather just calling everyone names hoping to win some kind of swearing contest. Sad, really.
Love it Vette! As ALWAYS, when vivisectors are at a loss to defend themselves they ALWAYS try to change the subject to something irrelivant. You are a classic and will no longer be listen to.
I was not trying to “defend myself.” I was trying to understand why people who disagree with someone elses point of view so often digress to swearing and calling people names. That’s all. And you are a classic too, my dear. And I completely agree that you will no longer be listened to.
We digress because animals are alone and in pain. Thousands of them in every second of the day in labs around the world. We have not right to use them this way. Most humans, you figure out the type, are arrogant and ignorant. this planet and all the being on it are here for our use or pleasure. You who thinks humans can conquer anything through science, I ask you this. If we had never had animals to use in research don’t you think we would have other ways to come to the same ends?
but you know what? It really doesn’t matter. I think we have already stepped over the line of no return and this will end for all of us soon.
No, pointing out the childishness (not to mention the misanthropy) of many extremists is not changing the subject. In point of fact the grammar school insults show the mentality of those extremists.
Well at least we use are REAL names and don’t hide behind stupid names!!
You say so much, yet you know so little!! I think you are the SAD one
here!! Maybe it is time you did your own research before you open your mouth again.
WELL SAID ANNIE, X
@99VETTEGYRL. I CAN ASSURE YOU VETTE.. THAT I AM NOT ILLITERATE, BEEN READING SINCE I WAS FIVE YEARS OLD…GOOD AT SPELLING TOO, OH BY THE WAY THIS IS HOW YOU SPELL… GIRL … NOT GYRL… NOW WHOS ILLITERATE…
If the funds dry up for the vivisectionists, will they “give nobly” of themselves, and continue the search for the cure for everything ? Let’s see how devoted they might be if forced to live in pup tents. Perhaps they can experiment on family members, and colleagues who wish to (once again) “give nobly” of themselves. Such dedication is bound to make it into many a slick publication.
I am so grateful to David and to all bench scientists whose work in animals produces miraculous new treatments for both human and animal disease. Without those advances, my animal patients would suffer and go wanting, as would my family, my friends and my society. The failure to grasp the limitations of alternatives to animal, research, the Federal legal requirement to test in animals before use in humans and more fundamentally, that if we fail to value our own species most highly, we lose our common humanity and no species is safe, infuses the arguments of those who oppose research in animals. The anti-human undertone is unmistakeable and is of a piece with extreme environmentalism, zero-population growth advocacy and other far left movements. Those who oppose the success of their own species are to be pitied, shamed and jailed if necessary, to protect the rest of us.
Exactly right.
Animal testing is not fool proof. Far from it. But in reality in many cases that’s all we have before humans become the guinea pigs. Check it out! Pharmaceutical Drug Litigation Updates. News reports concerning current and possible future unsafe drug side-effect lawsuits
http://www.drug-injury.com/drug_injury/
Thank you, Dr. Goldman, to bringing us back to what we should really be focusing on. You are exactly right.
OMG. Don’t you see that we are trying to protect the rest of us! We can not survive if the environment can not survive. This planet is finite. Just how many billions of people do you think iot can support? Come on now, give me a number. We do not oppose success, we oppose the road we’ve been using to get there. Because we can’t get there by killing and destroying everything this planet has to offer. You are a self-righteous fool sir!
Catastrophizing- killing a few hundred mice is not akin to killing an ecosystem or dumping cyanide into the great barrier reef or dropping Agent orange on the rain forest, killing a few hundred mice specifically bread for research has no effect on the outer world. see this is why research on mice is not bad like killing whales, one is endangered and one is easily renewable and common.
Does that make sense?
Well said Dr. Goldman. David is a brave and brilliant scientist and we all owe a debt to him.
I have no problem with ARA’s opposing animal research, so long as they put they put up when it counts. So long as they refuse any and all medical aid when needed. No ultrasounds, no MRI’s, no surgery, no medications of any kind, no bone scans, cancer treatments, (not all cancers are preventable by diet by the way), diabetes medications, or pediatric care for your children. So long as you all agree to all that, then by all means continue to whine. Otherwise, please shut-up.
Simon!! AGAIN I WILL REPEAT that what has been done in the past is moot. 1. Because no one tried any other ways except with animals so we will never know. and 2. Now that there are alternatives, its uncivilized and sadistic to CHOOSE to experiment on animals. Drivel about the past is ignorant. We have 1000s of non-animal alternatives available right this minute and 1000s more available each year. Sadly many of these non-animal alternatives have been available since as early as 2000.
Here’s some.
http://emptyallcages.com/victories/
And before you or anyone says “oh those are all wrong”, be aware that only a fool would dismiss everything all at once.
Simon- I just saw your remark that you’ll “call BS on this one- show me one alternative.” SERIOUSLY!!?? You’re that arrogant to say there isn’t one single non-animal alternative?? You are more than an idiot- you’re obviously completely uneducated.
@Lisa Grossman: As of today, 7-18-12, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires all new drugs to be tested in two species of animals PRIOR to them being given to humans. Unless and until that changes, no new therapeutics can be developed without the use of animals. No disrespect intended, but instead of attacking the scientists who are carrying out federally required (and often federally funded) research, your time may be better spent petitioning the FDA to revise their new drug approval procedures.
Kind of a moot point, these alternatives are good in many circumstances and I support them but it is impossible to model teratogenic effects on anything but a pregnant animal, it is impossible to measure certain types of systemic toxicity without animals. Drugs like anticonvulsants for seizures require an entire functioning brain to be accurately tested.
We can eliminate a lot of animal testing but some of it is necessary, I agree that we should not use animals when a suitable alternative is available but that is not always the case. Does that make sense?
And let’s not forget, no filet mignon, ham and cheese sandwiches, fried chicken wings or turkey for thanksgiving either.
I’ll wager that most ARA’s are not strict vegetarians and probably all have friends and relatives who aren’t either.
What a bunch of cowardly little hypocrites who don’t have the guts to take a stance against the big agro businesses.
Let me guess, they also drive cars and use electricity, activities that burn fossil fuels and produce CO2 and are a cause of climate change and things like species extinction.
Wonder if they’ve stopped their own reproduction to reduce population growth.
To be clear, I’m an atheist and not a huge fan what is in the Bible but
Mathew: 7/5 seems rather appropriate…
“Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.”
With abated breath I await a nationwide ARA campaign suggesting all Americans quit eating turkey for Thanksgiving. Betcha It doesn’t happen!
And in case anyone is wondering I’m heading to the supermarket to get some honey roast turkey breast to make sandwiches which I plan on eating for lunch tomorrow, YUM!
@Fred Vegetarians?? GAWD!! More ignorant people with no clue what they are talking about. Vegans.Ii’m sure you have no knowledge on this because you have no way to conceive living without the things you mention. Most people can’t see past what they themselves are. Also, since your also ignorant on the Bible try Proverbs 12:10.
http://emptyallcages.com/about-2/
I have a life long hatred for meat because all of that blood and guts is disgustingly sickening. Milk has an odor I can’t stand, and eggs remind me of human snot which is why they are salty tasting. I’m vegan by choice but I have friends and family who are not. I’m cool with that. They know I’m vegan and they are cool with that. In fact everybody at work knows I’m vegan and they think it’s totally cool-but I don’t attack their meat habits. However, economically USA has over 700,000+ strokes and over a million heart attacks a year (that’s a lot for a population of about 311 million people), which keeps the pharmaceutical companies quite wealthy and the physicians who prescribe them-rich. Interesting to note most The American Heart Association wrote a MOST fascinating article entitled, The “Merry Christmas Coronary” and “Happy New Year Heart Attack” Phenomenon by Robert A. Kloner, MD, PhD,
From the Heart Institute, Good Samaritan Hospital, and the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles. Please see http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/110/25/3744.full
“In addition, the degree of regulation of diet in inpatients may be variable because inpatients’ relatives and friends tend to bring gifts of food to them. People tend to gain weight during the holiday season and take in more salt, which can put additional stress on a weakened heart. Furthermore, fatty meals can have acute adverse effects on endothelial function. Excess use of alcohol during the holidays is unlikely to appear on medical records or death certificate data (the main data source for the study of Phillips et al) and should not be dismissed.” Bottom line we also live in a KFC/McDonalds nation. I’ll stick with my vegan food. And I really truly love TOFURKY. Even my meat eating friends love it. Our liver manufactures all the cholesterol it needs (which isn’t a fat, but a steroid STORED in fat. Anything else taken in is excess which the body must eliminate. A vegan diet is very low in cholesterol and fat. I’ve been vegan for many, many years and enjoy the health benefits. And unlike my other family members whom all are on cholesterol medications, I don’t need it since my check ups have great numbers. I could tell you the terrible things the Agriculture business does to meat such as since 2006 spray meat with live viruses “to kill bacteria” (approved by the FDA in 2006 which coincidentally autoimmune diseases are steadily are on the rise)-you get viruses (obligate parasites) while cutting the meat, and stays in cutting boards (what’s to stop these viruses from eating your healthy bacteria in your gut necessary for survival). Not to mention half the meat supply is infected with MRSA from antibiotic abuse (contagious by handling it and stays on cutting boards) including superbug strep and VRE and C. Diff. 80% of all antibiotics sold in USA is for farm factories as a growth stimulant. Poultry feed is routinely sprinkled with low dose ARSENIC which is organic, makes them top heavy and the meat kind of pinkish. Arsenic is linked to diabetes and cancers. Then we have the cows who are fed a regular diet of chicken manure because it’s cheep cow feed. Red meat is gassed with carbon monoxide to keep it fresh looking, and if you love bacon and ham, in addition to the MRSA in the raw meat, pork, ham, bacon–contain Hepatitis E. And the Pork Board knows about it-and is contagious to humans. I can go on and on but I’m getting tired of typing. So enjoy….your meat. I’ll stick with my vegan diet, thank you.
All this arguing is a waste of time. The simple truth is that what we are doing to majority of animals/environment on this planet is morally and ethically irreprehensible.
It’s a dying planet. Overpopulated. And natural resources are getting more and more polluted. And all the denial in the world isn’t going to make it go away. I even read reports that fish has radiation in it from Japan’s nuclear leak. (http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Japan-s-radiation-found-in-California-bluefin-tuna-3591176.php) and even U.S. Army General said the whole Northern Hemisphere is at Risk of Becoming Largely Uninhabitable (see http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/u-s-army-general-the-whole-northern-hemisphere-is-at-risk-of-becoming-largely-uninhabitable_05252012) this does not include China which pours out TONS of pollution into the water, land and air. It’s not just China’s problem because the pollution goes international. The China pollution is so bad you can see it in outer space! Interesting to note CHINA DAILY reported, “304 Chinese die from indoor air pollution a day”. Note it said INDOOR pollution. (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-05/10/content_15257255.htm). The World Health Organization stated, “A World Health Organization (WHO) report estimates that diseases triggered by indoor and outdoor air pollution kill 656,000 Chinese citizens each year, and polluted drinking water kills another 95,600. (Related: “China’s Pollution Leaving Mountains High and Dry, Study Finds” [March 8, 2007].)” These are old figures. The population is much bigger now, and there is more pollution. See: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html
PS: “Captain Planet” Ted Turner warned of overpopulation explosion in the mid 1970’s. World population was 3.5 billion. Needless to say nothing was done about it. People ignored the warnings. The GOP keeps on cutting funding on birth control, while the anti-abortionists, Catholics, Mormons, and other religious groups made breeding a religion. No, God will not provide. Earth is all we have. Human population has since doubled, and the bigger it gets, the quicker it grows. Now-seven billion people. In less than 40 years it has doubled. It’s really too late to fix it because world population is way over out of control. Nobody will admit it. The religious right will still preach and tell people to breed, and the government will continue to cut finding on family planning. Our planet, in short, is doomed from pollution, and you don’t even have to be religious to see it happening now. INSULT ME ALL YOU WANT. Call me a tree hugger. Call me an idiot. Call me stupid. I don’t care. You KNOW I’m speaking the truth and just don’t want to admit it. Does it matter? No. Because it’s too late to fix it.
Ir`rep`re`hen´si`ble
a. 1. Not reprehensible; blameless; innocent.
Glad we’re on the same page about that then 🙂
See that? As I told you in the beginning of this thread vivisectors/supporter will ALWAYS turn to trying to garble things when they can no longer defend their belief. Spelling, vocabulary, etc. They will ALWAYS throw these in when they cannot go any further.
Animal rights activists make me want to eat bacon. And I’m a liberal.
Thanks Dr. Jentsch for your contribution to science and the good of mankind, even the hypocrits who have nothing else to do than complain about having drugs and treatments to extend their life. If they want to go support helpless victims….why not go to Afghanistan or Pakistan or other such areas to support and defend women abused, tortured, burned by acid etc….at the hands of real sadists….OH but wait! these sadists, Taliban and company would fight back and kill the defenders without a blink….much safer to attack civilized scientists who are often prevented by their own administration to even reply to accusations!!!
Did you say “civilized scientist”? You might want to on that a little more.
Think weas the word I left out.
Just my 2 cents of support as a proud scientist and an animal-based researcher during several segments of my career (and an animal lover and far Left Green as well). I’ve had a few minor run-ins with these loons in the past but was out of touch with the current frightening reality. Just the comments I’ve seen here are sickening in their sheer lunacy, ignorance and violence. I agree 100% with you and clearly it is the duty of researchers and institutions who come up against people like Merino to fight back with every legal means available. Put the criminals behind bars where they belong and continue to push back against the irrationality that supports this destructive, misguided aggression against legitimate science/biomedicine.
IT’S…. MARINO … IDIOT.. I HOPE TO GOD YOU HAVE NEVER WRITTEN A PRESCRIPTION OUT FOR A HUMAN…A SPELLING MISTAKE LIKE THAT COULD COST SOMEONE THEIR LIFE…..CALL YOURSELF A.. DOCTOR…
I LIKE CAPSLOCK TOO…
CAPSLOCK AND NITPICKING
I am against unnecessary suffering. But I want medical advances. So the question becomes “Do we test on humans, or non-human animals?” Personally, I would be willing to sacrifice thousands on mice if it saves just one child from cancer.
I hope Camille Marino (and her ilk) gets the maximum sentence for her crimes.
Camille and NIO had no right to harass these scientists. I am not disputing that. However, medical advances is a double edged sword: It’s an irony that it’s going to be the destruction of the human race, i.e., world population 7 billion, the planet is becoming more and more toxic. Overpopulation is going to destroy the human race. The bigger it gets, the faster it grows. The next world war will NOT be over politics – but the acquisition of fresh water.
Harassing individuals even to the point of threats is NOT free speech. Let’s put it this way: I’m sure if the tables were turned around and Camille received such messages of such enormous magnitude and with great frequency, she would be the one seeking a restraint order. I seen the Photoshopped image in question of Mr. O, — it disgusted me, was childish–and in my opinion intended as a threat–I mean if I received such a photo I would be afraid for my life and view it as a threat. **THIS IS WRONG!** Or can extremists ever think in that manner. If anything Mr. O (who has filed the restraining order against Camille) – he deserves an APOLOGY.
There have been no threats. Name them please.
And for the record, UF and Gainesville Police send me letters threatening me and my child. They pose it in a question so its all good for them.Should be for all. PS these are the same idiots who arrested me for standing on the sidewalk with a suspended drivers license, tried to take me to trial, got caught bold face lying in court, then had to drop the case after 5 months of trying because their evidence got surpressed by a rational judge. So letters, threats, anger, lying- it’s all free speech for them. After my recent case and the judge’s finding, I’m sure Camille’s case will benefit. This is why bad people with lots of money will prolong her to trial.
So seriously, you have to consider that Camille, no matter how offensive she is, is like a whistle blower. This is why they are treating her in this way.
“There have been no threats.”
That’s will be for the jury to decide.
“UF and Gainesville Police send me letters threatening me and my child.”
Wait… Child? Is your child vaccinated?
People “blow the whistle” all the time without having to resort to intimidation against individuals. Educating the public is one thing-BUT harassing individuals, is quite another and it is WRONG.
@cetude (19:59:21) :
“I’m vegan by choice but I have friends and family who are not. I’m cool with that.”
QED! You have just proved my point that you are all hypocrites! Why don’t you attack your friends and family first for being so cruel to the pigs, cows, chickens etc?! Because you’re COOL WITH THAT! Riiight…
As for eating meat myself I eat very little of it and my comment about going to buy some turkey was more for stirring the pot a bit.
And I’m definitely not cool with our agricultural practices and furthermore I’m not cool with inciting others to violence over it. I certainly wouldn’t suggest that it would amuse me if the butcher down the street met an untimely demise.
We, as a society need a major paradigm shift for many reasons, you people are not really about fundamental shifts you are just about self agrandisement and petty power trips. Get over yourselves! You are just a bunch of dangerous maniacs!
Because I can’t force a person to become vegan, and have no desire to–they know my position, and I educate people-but I never force or attack them. That accomplishes nothing. By the way, I truly resent your SLANDER calling me a “dangerous maniac” which there are laws against slander I can invoke. You posting it here is no different than publishing it in the papers and I can even contact my attorneys. In fact I can even email your slanderous statement to my attorneys. I happen to be a very law abiding citizen and a licensed professional.
And you, Sir, need to get an education. In fact, many many famous people have been vegan or vegetarian throughout history. including Pythagoras (Mathematician), Albert Schweitzer, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Tolstoy, Henry David Thoreau, Leonardo da Vinci, Gandhi, Thomas Edison, Mark Twain…Chaka Khan, Sir Paul McCartney, Bill Clinton, etc etc etc and you completely DISRESPECT entire cultures and religions that do not eat meat such as Hindus, Seventh Day Adventists, and even some Buddhists. The guy who played Tarzan,
“Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.” —Albert Einstein
Bill Clinton
http://healthyliving.msn.com/health-wellness/why-these-famous-vegetarians-and-vegans-pass-on-meat-1
The former president radically changed his diet after undergoing two heart procedures, including a quadruple bypass in 2004. Because of a family history of heart disease and some extra pounds, Clinton’s doctors put him on a near-vegan diet heavy on fruits and vegetables and devoid of meat, dairy, and eggs. Research has shown that such intensive lifestyle changes can prevent or even reverse heart disease. “All my blood tests are good, and my vital signs are good, and I feel good,” he said in a recent interview with CNN. “I like the vegetables, the fruits, the beans, the stuff I eat now.”
Bill Clinton’s daughter, Cheslea, is entirely vegan.
http://www.peta.org/features/vegetarian-athletes.aspx
From Olympic arenas to NFL stadiums, vegetarian athletes are dominating their meat-eating competitors. Meat-free mavericks include Sports Illustrated “Olympian of the Century” Carl Lewis, top ultra-marathon runner Scott Jurek, tennis legend Chris Evert, football star Ricky Williams, Ultimate Fighting champ Mac Danzig, NBA standouts Raja Bell and Salim Stoudamire, and boxing champion Keith Holmes.
johnny weissmuller of the Tarzan series-never ate meat.
PS Cloris Leachman, one of my favorite actresses-is entirely plant based diet all of her life (she, along with Beatrice Arthur – were official PETA spokespeople and so is Betty White!). Mary Tyler Moore, who suffer Type I diabetes, does not consumes animals and has done videos on behalf of Farm Sanctuary.
@WWJD, laws are needed. But since you obviously read the Bible then you know when things are confusing , we make a righteous decision based on something good and stable- The Word. A good tree doesn’t produce bad fruit. Those animals bloodied, crying, agonized and murdered are not good. We know this from Proverbs 12:10. So that means if we can see the outcome of something is so horrific- the place it came from is likley bad. You don’t need to read that from any book, its just logic. So the laws you’re again bowing to just because they say so are not right. AND they are written by the animal abusers! Sheesh! Everything Hitler did was once legal, as well as the KKK. Once it was illegal and punishable to say the earth was round. So WWJD, you have to use all of yourself to make decisions here. I know, its likely impossible for you- no disrespect. OK so you like the law. Now go ever everything else involved in vivisections, Camille and those who fight for animals. And PLEASE DON’T FORGET: We pay money to do what we do and in the end we gain only peace of mind. They make money on what they do and become very comfortable with things in life if they continue.
Lisa, actually in my case WWJD stands for “Who Wants Jelly Donuts”
@WWJD…. that’s hysterical!! I’m stealing that!
You are no better than she is…many of your words to describe Camille can be used to describe you (you just direct your uncivilized behavior towards animals). Maybe that’s why the two of you crossed paths.
Jackie, we do not direct uncivilized behaviour towards animals. I think you must be on something as you have got it SO backwards. Camille and Lisa are two individuals, completely different personalities!! Are you going to say that about all NIO members?? Just because we all know what these Evil people are doing and trying to get away with?? You will see in the future that we are the ones that are right and yes we stand up for what we believe in. You are obviously one of these “see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil”. It is time to wake the hell up!!!
Your pathetic attempt of a stab at both of these Ladies is highly amusing as you have NO idea what you are talking about!!
NEVER HURT AN ANIMAL IN MY LIFE AND DON’T INTEND TO, WHAT DO YOU THINK…. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST STANDS FOR…. WE FIGHT TO STOP ANIMALS FROM BARBARIC TORTURE AND PAIN AND SUFFERING….WE FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHTS….AND I’M QUITE CIVILISED…WE STAND UNITED IN WHAT WE BELIEVE IN.. TOGETHER..AS ONE… WATCH THE VIDEOS JACKIE… SEE WHAT THE ANIMALS GO THROUGH….WATCH THE VIDEO OF THE MONKEY HAVING ACID SPILT ON IT… THE BEAGLE BEING PUNCHED IN THE FACE AND SCREAMED AT, CAT HAVING BRAINS SCOOPED OUT, MONKEYS BEING DELIBERATELY BRAIN DAMAGED, RABBITS HAVING THEIR STOMACHES CUT OPEN AS THEIR SQUEALING AND THEIR PAWS SHAKING IN PAIN, THESE ANIMALS ARE FULLY CONCIOUS, THEY ARE IMMOBILISED..SO THEY CAN’T MOVE… THEY FEEL EVERYTHING THATS DONE TO THEM…THEN SAY WHO IS UNCIVILISED…..
Jusus christ man do you need some sedatives
Hello! Less than 2% of human illnesses (1.16%) are ever seen in animals. Over 98% never affect animals
Linda: Citation please. Even if this were true, you underestimate the importance of understanding homologous disease states between species and what can be learned from that.
hey jentsch, can you please install an add-on on this magnificent blog so that i can “like” my colleagues’ comments? some of them really crack me up! 😀
btw, you are cordially invited to celebrate my release at a demo at the home of uf vivisector raymond joseph bergeron next saturday, 8/25 at 2 pm: 6220 NW 56TH Lane, Gainesville, FL 32653-3117.
please give him my fondest regards when you speak to him next and tell him to expect his lawsuit to be served shortly,
mmm Camille I am kind of surprised you showed up here. I may not be jentshe but I would love to be there. Sadly I can’t attend your festivities in two days however I am very much looking forward to having a party outside the courthouse when you get a tasty 5-10 years. I don’t think they let many animals into prisons, I guess you could always fight for “fruit fly rights”
Good luck, you will need it
No sympathy for researchers and scientists that conduct vivisection and experiments on animals. You speak of ‘civilised’ society and you behave like some twisted sadist in the name of science. Animals first – scientific enquiry second. Have some decency. Some ethics. Some standards of humanity and compassion. Don’t blame others for how hateful they are toward you. Look at why! You should be utterly ashamed of yourself. I hope